Osho was a Zen Master.
I dont think he was interested in democracy or whether things were censored or not, etc.
Sometimes, for example, when he told Sudesh to leave the ashram in 1978, some felt it was autocratic, though within the biography of Sudesh's life, even he would now say that he had been "caught up" inadvertently in Pune one, and should not have been there.
Mysticism, including Zen, seems to flourish within more laid back political systems, and often are closed down or outlawed in those who exert rigid censorship, so there is a quotient of relationship in my view between the health of mysticism and the political health of those societies in which it arises.
Sufism at this time is having a real hard time surviving in the states where Islamic fundamemtalism flourish, whereas it did not in the seventies when it flourished.
So ..., this board is not Osho according to Parmartha.
I just feel that I want to be on the side where the right soil is created in which mysticism can flourish, and I figure that is in what is usually called a free society.
Within the Master Disciple relationship there may well be situations that call for suspension of one's own judgement and surrender, and such situations can sometimes seem, within the micro world of a mystery school, undemocratic.
Parmartha is - beside our free firstname.lastname@example.org gathering the only one, who has a free board. ''Free'' means, that my floppy fingers are allowed there to contribute without any interference since around five years.
|Message #10272 of 10304 Fri Sep 1, 2006 8:55 pm
Re: [LivingOsho] Re: Guidance / noby FAQ / end of discussion
What it shows is just that i am angry and impatient. That noby is continuing his agenda after all these years and enlisting you to advance it is a major drag.
You can think of it as a threat, i am communicating with you about my impatience with this guy and his trips and indicating how unwelcome your taking up his cause would be. I can see that it may not have been "fair" to be so abrupt with you, may even have been unwise. It would not be the first time! But at least consider what i am saying before launching into your psychoanalysis.
1. I didn't say you were his advocate, just warning you against BECOMING same. Please be advised that to plead his case in any way here based on whatsoever lofty general principles will be considered being his advocate. You may not think that you are doing that above, but in my eyes, you are. Please read and understand this whole message before reacting with some point-by-point argument.
2. I know i am not God, except inasmuch as we all are.
3. I am actually open to the possibility that he might change and am as aware as you of that possibility. There is no need to lecture me about that. Your assertion that i am saying that "the door for Noby is closed forever" has no merit whatsoever.
4. In fact -- reading comprehension alert!! -- i allude to that possibility and to my consideration of that AND my observation that he is NOT changing in what i wrote to you: "There is a long history between us and he is not changing." Admittedly this is somewhat terse but when in doubt, ask. I repeat, HE IS NOT CHANGING. The same tactics and strategies -- cross-posting his complaints to other groups to manipulate people there, inveigling LO members with private emails to take up his cause, etc etc -- are in play as always. There is NO (zero) examination of his own trip, just a complaint about his ego-freedom being abrogated. CHANGE IS NOT HAPPENING.
5. If you cannot discriminate between a private message and a public one nor understand the appropriateness of respecting privacy, you will run into lots of problems (with lots of people). Since you initiated the private email process, i continued in private. Please be advised that i take a very dim view of your having posted it here and continuing to argue for poor noby deserving another chance, with no consideration of what i said or what the members here might want or anything beyond your love of arguing and testing, just like in your reaction to what i wrote to Atul.
6. The name of this group, Leaving Osho, does not in any way suggest that this is the only valid Osho forum on the net. Nor do i control anyone's access to other sannyasins. There are many venues and the possibility at all times to open more venues. Any complaint about loss of freedom is therefore completely specious and bogus.
7. If it saddens you to see sannyasins fighting, then that is something to watch, not something to make a "cause" about. I too can get sad seeing this, but in fact it was never meant to be "one big happy family." This is an idea to which noby resorts in order to advance his agenda. Osho makes it clear that our relationship is with him, not each other. We are here because we choose to be, not in service of some ideal of big family.
8. It is not up to you to tell sannyasins how they should be. Even "full
sannyasins" -- as opposed to someone in your position (of having been initiated but more fully with someone else) -- have no right to tell other sannyasins how they should be.
9. You might ask Nisarg about this too. Nisarg has seen noby in action. And while you're at it, ask Nisarg what he has to say about your actions here.
10. Please re-read all the above before thinking you understand. Your instant reply shows that you don't, as Nirguna says below.
Amen and Hallelujah brother!
From my post yesterday to the list where noby was cross-posting to manipulate:
When he took sannyas, Osho gave him the name Anand Erhard, and said this to him:
Sw Anand Erhard , Anand means bliss. Erhard means noble.
Misery always makes a person mean. A miserable person cannot be noble -- that is impossible. He has nothing to be noble for, he has nothing to share. Misery maketh man mean.
He is just a black hole. He sucks people. Even his presence is enough to make people sick.
Case closed, until he himself does something to demonstrate a change.